On Sep. 30, Lex Fridman shared a 4 and a half hour lengthy interview with Telegram CEO and founder Pavel Durov. They touched upon numerous subjects, together with censorship, authorities strain, and freedom of speech, amongst others. Some parts of their dialogue had been devoted to the crypto area.
Abstract
- Durov mentioned he invested in Bitcoin again in 2013. He revealed that his life-style was supported by his BTC funding, as Telegram didn’t deliver cash till 2024.
- Throughout an interview, Durov defined that Telegram items are “socially related NFTs” as they exist in an ecosystem utilized by a billion-plus customers, and folks can use items on Telegram to point out off.
- In a softball interview, Fridman careworn that he admires Durov as a distinguished and fearless freedom of speech advocate. He didn’t contact upon claims that tie Durov to FSB and different controversies related to him.
Pavel Durov’s Bitcoin funding
Throughout the Lex Fridman interview, Durov mentioned he’s positive the Bitcoin value will hit $1,000,000 in some unspecified time in the future. He recalled that in 2013, he invested round $2,000,000 in Bitcoin. The worth crumbled the subsequent yr, however he saved telling his pals he was not going to promote Bitcoin as he believed on this new factor. Bitcoin issues to him attributable to its essential options:
“I believe that is the best way cash ought to work. No one can confiscate your Bitcoin from you. No one can censor you for political causes.”
Pavel famous that it was his Bitcoin funding, not Telegram, that allowed him to remain afloat, stay in good places, and fly personal.
Blockchain and Telegram
A piece of the interview was devoted to Telegram’s blockchain-based options. In response to Durov, Telegram is the primary app that permits customers to immediately personal their digital identification and username through NFTs and good contracts.
Talking about TON, Durov famous that the Telegram workforce labored on it in 2018 and 2019. Telegram wanted blockchain “as a result of we imagine in blockchain, we expect it’s one of many applied sciences that allow freedom.” Durov mentioned that Bitcoin’s and Ethereum’s scalability issues made him consider Telegram’s customized layer1 blockchain match for Telegram’s multi-million userbase.
Telegram was compelled at hand the TON mission to the open neighborhood after the U.S. Securities and Change Fee dominated that Grams, native tokens of the TON blockchain, are securities. Now, Toncoins assist fund Telegram, as advertisements are paid with TON tokens, and channels that earn from advertisements share half of the income with Telegram.
Durov claimed that Telegram items could be outlined as a “reinvented socially related NFT built-in right into a billion-user ecosystem, however on the identical time accessible on chain, transferable, which you’ll be able to personal immediately, additionally based mostly on TON.”
He elaborated on the best way Telegram items are higher NFTs:
“We didn’t like the old fashioned NFTs. To begin with, they weren’t related socially as a result of, okay, you have got an NFT, the place do you show it? At Telegram, a telegram present is there subsequent to your title. It’s a part of your digital identification on Telegram. After which you may create collections of items and present it off in your profile web page.”
In response to Durov, many high-profile influencers flocked to Telegram to launch their items after Snoop Dogg bought $12 million value of his items in some half-hour.
Durov admitted he loses cash due to Telegram
Fridman outlined that Durov spent tens of millions of his personal cash on the mission to maintain it aligned along with his views. As an illustration, it allowed Durov to maintain Telegram freed from person data-based advertisements. Fridman famous that solely in 2024 did Telegram turn into worthwhile and requested how Telegram makes cash.
Pavel answered that to turn into worthwhile, the Telegram workforce needed to be progressive. It allowed them to not resort to doubtful enterprise actions involving exploiting private knowledge of customers, one thing that almost all of [Telegram’s] rivals do.”
He added that it’s unhappy for him that exploiting person exercise knowledge, metadata, and different varieties of private data for advert focusing on grew to become synonymous with the Web business.
Whereas Telegram grew to become worthwhile, Durov admitted that he misplaced more cash investing in Telegram than he obtained again. Sooner or later, Telegram selected to go along with a subscription mannequin. Durov determined to maintain all the present options untouched whereas including some extras for paid subscribers, like enterprise channels or superior customers.
After the launch in 2022, 15 million Telegram customers obtained paid subscriptions. In 2025, Durov mentioned the corporate will obtain round $500 million from premium subscriptions.
One other income is the 5% fee charged from third-party builders launching mini-apps and bots in Telegram. Nevertheless, Durov suggests it doesn’t deliver a lot cash; slightly, it’s extra priceless as a method to appeal to extra customers.
Pavel Durov as a freedom of speech advocate
Fridman launched Durov as a fighter for privateness and freedom of communication, persevering with his mission regardless of immense strain from a number of governments. Within the 2010s, Durov needed to combat with the Russian authorities. In 2024, he was arrested in Paris. Ever since, he has had tensions with the French authorities.
Durov instructed Fridman that French authorities pushed him to dam help teams for presidential candidates in Moldova and Romania. In response to Durov, he denied interference whereas blocking a couple of teams that violated the platform’s guidelines. Durov was instructed that his actions might impression the persevering with investigation in opposition to him in France. Right here’s what he instructed Fridman:
“After Telegram banned the few channels that had been in violation of our guidelines in Moldova, they talked to my decide, the investigative decide on this investigation that has been began in opposition to me, and instructed the decide that they might take into consideration me. Which I discovered very complicated and, in a method, surprising as a result of these two issues don’t have anything in widespread. Why would anybody speak to an investigative decide who’s looking for out whether or not Telegram did a adequate job in eradicating unlawful content material in France? What does Moldova should do with it?”
Whereas Fridman and lots of others name Durov a freedom of speech advocate combating in opposition to authorities oppression, some paint him in numerous colours. As an illustration, Russian nongovernment election monitoring teams declare that Telegram blocks their bots. In June 2025, the Necessary Tales investigation pointed to messengers’ ties with FSB.
